Comments on: Labour should fuse patriotism with progressive politics

By: comeoffit

comeoffit — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 10:24:09 +0000

Ah you mean the referendum that was sold as ‘a tidying up exercise’? The one before which Carwyn Jones himself said “Tax varying powers are not on the table. If they were, then I’d be leading the NO campaign”. Oh and remind me again of the turnout? Remind me also of what specific new laws have actually manifested as a result of these new powers (that wasnt devolved already!)

There is only one thing worse than a lying, devious politician and that is somebody who ignorantly sticks up for them.

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By: David Lloyd Owen

David Lloyd Owen — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 12:40:25 +0000

I imagine Mr Fynn’s popularity in part stems from the fact that his views are seen as representing the majority of Welsh people, rather than those who lost the 2011 referendum so heavily.

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By: Jon Jones

Jon Jones — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 15:23:35 +0000

I read an interesting piece of mischief making recently on the subject of Scottish independence. The writer speculated that the Orkney and Shetland Isles might want to go their own way and split from Scotland, either remaining as British or declaring independence. The trouble is that such a position would mean that Wee Eck’s books would no longer balance without the oil revenue. I believe that there has already been a European ruling that countries declaring independence must re-apply for EU membership. Does that apply to ALL countries in a fragmented Britain?

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By: comeoffit

comeoffit — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 11:06:45 +0000

When will Paul Flynn do the decent thing and join Plaid Cymru I wonder?! He seems to be profiting quite nicely from that old south Walian trait of being willing to even vote for a donkey if it has a red rosette on. I wonder how many of his voters are aware of just how nationalist his leaning has become of late.

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By: Howell Morgan

Howell Morgan — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 10:06:57 +0000

I humbly agree that the real problem with the current settlement is the unresolved position of England, which is in effect (particularly the productive part) the banker of last resort for rest of UK. There is a major problem coming down the line as with the vast immigration taking place into the south east/midlands of England there is a whole range of voters who have no sentimental ties with other parts of the UK, and only England really matters to them. Recently I was given medical assistance by an efficient nurse from the French Caribbean and when I told her I was from Wales, but staying in Northampton with family she replied “I’ve heard of Wales, and must visit some time!”. What ever PF thinks of New Labour it did get elected with massive majorities over 3 general elections, and in Tony Blair it had a Leader of world class status and history will judge his performances in the round. Just finished Alastair Campbells last diaries and most certainly the opinion of the top level in government of the ‘awkward squad’, of whom PF seems to have one, is about as complimentary to him as he was of them. What ever the Scottish people decide is clearly up to them, and the ‘tectonic plates’ will surely have moved, which will only accelerate the devolution process in a much faster pace. What I cannot understand is how in an area where Scotland has total autonomy already, i.e Soccer it is failing abysmally and with one of the world giants in terms of support, ie. Glasgow Rangers, in its third division because of lack of money, why it would want to seperate itself? I disagree with PF as most people I know and respect are having very great doubts about the current settlement in terms of performance of the Welsh Government, except in the area of the Welsh language, where public money is keeping many of the favoured people in well paid employment. In conclusion without Labour MP’s from the celtic fringe the English would have a permanent centre-right party in charge who could turn England into an economic powerhouse, particularly without the interference from Europe, so where would that leave little Wales?

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By: Ian

Ian — Tue, 25 Sep 2012 23:43:29 +0000

This is a very interesting article and in fairness, it would never have been penned by the previous holder of Owen’s post. However, perhaps the biggest problem Labour have with the ‘nationalism’ debate within the UK is not Scotland or even Wales, but England. The English question is perhaps one of the biggest challenges that Labour faces in post devolution UK and the fact that the ‘E’ word only cropped up once in this article, says a lot I suggest. You only have to re-visit Owen’s boss’s dire speech on this very topic in recent weeks, to see the problem they have at the heart of their party.

Owen Smith can perhaps give Ed a few tips on the consequences of devolution.

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By: Gareth A.Ll. ap-Sion

Gareth A.Ll. ap-Sion — Tue, 25 Sep 2012 14:14:41 +0000

I agree with Celticus’s reaction to these views. It’s sniffing the winds of change.
I can envisage Wales in the future being free to chart her own course and Welsh Labour will happily take all the credit and revisit Keir Hardie’s dream of Welsh independence

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By: Paul Flynn

Paul Flynn — Tue, 25 Sep 2012 10:55:41 +0000

Very encouraging flight from the excesses and errors of ‘New’ Labour. The more red water that can be flooded into Wales’s eastern coast of Offa’s Ditch the better.

Need to ponder the meaning on ‘confederalism’. It sounds encouraging. There has been a continuing honourable presence of Welsh nationalism in the Labour Party. It has a tenuous long history that has been influential on the development of devolution. If Scotland opts for independence, the weather will change.
The lesson from Scotland appears to be that if Wales wants Devo-max, we should campaign for independence.

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By: Mark Jones

Mark Jones — Tue, 25 Sep 2012 10:05:19 +0000

So, when stripped down, it is essentially British nationalism with a Welsh face. Business as usual for the Labour Party. If people fall for this then it really will expose the paucity of our sense of national identity.

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By: Celticus

Celticus — Tue, 25 Sep 2012 09:49:22 +0000

Interesting as part of a flurry of thoughtful articles from Labour over the Summer. They are to be congratulated on that. On content, however, the usual ‘Anglo-Saxon’ confusion of ‘state’ and ‘nation’ makes analysis difficult.

The dog that didn’t bark is any recognition of Labour’s British nationalism and all its consequences: nuclear weapons, expeditionary warfare, casino capitalism, European exceptionalism, monolingualism, etc. So for “Welsh Labour” even in the 21st Century – nearly a century since they first adopted it in 1916 – British nationalism is an unmovable given.

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