Comments on: After Leanne’s honeymoon

By: Jon Jones

Jon Jones — Tue, 20 Nov 2012 12:01:32 +0000

Ah but Phil, can you find an objective commentator on this site?

By: Phil Davies

Phil Davies — Tue, 20 Nov 2012 09:52:10 +0000

Jon Jones – “And what, may I ask, is wrong with my perfectly reasonable interpretation of “Unappealing elements”?

I think the answer to that question is plain to see in your posting above Jon. I’m not sure you’d get too many objective observers and commentators on this site agreeing that the words “perfectly reasonable” could be associated comfortably with the language and opinions you express in your posting.

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By: Tredwyn

Tredwyn — Mon, 19 Nov 2012 21:57:54 +0000

Plaid’s one advantage is that it has no loyalty to a London party. Yes, Labour is most people’s party in Wales but they have shown time and again that they will sell Wales down the river if it helps Labour to a majority in the UK. Look at the Barnett formula. They moan now but in 13 years in office they did nothing. Plaid’s obvious role is shop steward and representative of the Welsh interest. Just like the SNP in Scotland. Most Scots don’t want independence but they vote SNP. Most trades unionists in the old days weren’t communists but they voted for communist representatives. You want your bastard to fight their bastard. That’s what Plaid should be doing and it transcends the language divide.

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By: Jon Jones

Jon Jones — Fri, 16 Nov 2012 17:28:46 +0000

And what, may I ask, is wrong with my perfectly reasonable interpretation of “Unappealing elements”? No one can possibly think that Culture and Language zealotry coupled with an endless, ceaseless denigration of all things English and a penchant for vicious personal attacks on anyone who strays from Plaid “core values” are appealing; not to average voters anyway.

I don’t mind a brief look at just how unelectable current Plaid policies make the party if Daniel and Phil prefer.

Independence… thrust to the fore in the leadership election amid hysterical predictions that Wales would grasp independence in the wake of Scotland’s sundering of the hated Union. Scotland is increasingly unenthusiastic but in Wales there is no sign that more than 11% of the public have any love for the idea of breaking from the UK. Could this policy, aspiration or whatever you want to call it ever attract the vital majority of voters? Well, here’s a clue… just 63% of the population of Wales identify themselves as Welsh.

Anti-Monarchism… I seem to recollect that a poll showed that about 60% of Welsh people supported the Monarchy so not a great vote winner to diss the queen.

Language and culture… the glue that holds Nationalists together, until Leanne became leader. Now what? She’s hardly a Welsh language devotee. More to the point, is the Language any sort of “winner” for Plaid? Well actually Labour have pretty well shot the Welsh language fox it seems to me. What can Plaid offer that Labour haven’t already done?

Negativity… Plaid does this best of all. You name it, Plaid’s against it. There is nothing less appealing in the long run than endless, tedious, ultra conservative… negativity!

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By: Howell Morgan

Howell Morgan — Fri, 16 Nov 2012 17:22:34 +0000

There can be no doubt that LW has a very difficult job as PC has to appeal to two distinct constituencies at the same time, i.e a) working class voters in the valley areas/poor estates who have been left behind in virtual de-industrialistation of last 50 years, b) Welsh speaking farming communities/areas whose whole standard of living depends on CAP which is a disgrace and forces food prices to higher levels than needed by economic activity. The One-Wales government bewtween PC/Labour was the biggest contradictory tie up in political terms stince Stalin/Hitler signed the non-aggression pact in 1939. They all in reality hate each other, as Labour knows that any growth in PC will reduce its chances of re-election at Westminster, where power still rests, and thank the Lord for that! Other than for small and very disgruntled section of the Welsh population who wish to see us split from UK and become a virtual soviet republic (Welsh speaking of course) then LW is an irrelevance to our current needs. If PC could turn itself into a modern centre right party which sought to energise people/communities to take more responsibility for individual/collective matters, in comparison to the tired, out-dated policies of labour it might become relevant to more than 10% of the population.

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By: Phil Davies

Phil Davies — Fri, 16 Nov 2012 12:47:51 +0000

“taking on the more unappealing elements in her party”

I hope, David, that by “unappealing elements” you actually meant “policy positions that do not currently appeal to a majority of voters” and not, as can be interpreted by what you wrote (and what Jon Jones seems to have understood) “unsavoury or sinister characters and opinions”.

You can’t possibly have meant the latter could you? For if you did, I’m not sure if that sort of suggestive dissemblance is suitable for this website (publishing opinions that are informed and articulated in the light of evidence and example). I expect it from commentators, but not from the authors.

I apologise if that was not what was intended but Jon Jones seems to think it was.

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By: Daniel Williams

Daniel Williams — Thu, 15 Nov 2012 22:18:22 +0000

Interesting piece. Though taking lessons about web initiatives from Welsh Labour is a bit like taking lessons on tolerance from Jon Jones.
Remember this?
http://labourlist.org/2009/03/aneurin-glyndwr-an-obama-moment-for-welsh-labour/

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By: Trefjon

Trefjon — Thu, 15 Nov 2012 16:34:50 +0000

Who on earth thinks that Leanne had a good first six months. She was entangled in an embarrassing oath swearing in some back street pub, did not fulfill her first engagement and has maintained an agenda akin to the unelectable “greens” in England. It serves Labour well to give the impression that she is half competent because it will be far easier to demolish her in 2016. She is taking Plaid away from its grassroots which is overwhelmingly pro-Welsh or anti-Labour and gives the party its seats in the main and this will prove disastrous in the medium term. How on earth she thinks that a vaguely winnable seat exists in SE Wales betrays all logic, and could provide her with an exit strategy from a job to which she is ill suited and politically naive. The question I ask as an erstwhile insider is who on earth is pulling her strings – could it be the Labour party!!

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By: Daniel Thomas

Daniel Thomas — Thu, 15 Nov 2012 16:00:14 +0000

I give Leanne Wood credit for taking on the hopeless task of trying to unseat Labour in Wales.

The Labour Party’s dominance over Welsh life is total. Their strategy for maintaining this dominance is perfect, it works everytime.

Expanding the right to entitlements, encouraging government dependency then demonising and smearing anyone who disagrees is a proven winner.

The problems in Wales all stem from a lack of wealth creation and the adherence to the failed philosophy of socialism. The Welsh economy is broken just like the Greek economy. More is spent than is earned in revenue, mainly on social programmes that enrenches dependency and guarantees loyalty on election day.

There is no light at the end of the tunnel. Typical MP’s or AM’s are professional politicians with no experience in the real world of the wealth creating sector.

Leanne Wood has got nothing to lose by giving Wales a new vision of individual liberty and prosperity instead of the grey collective poverty of the Labour Party that has blighted Wales for so long.

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By: David Taylor

David Taylor — Thu, 15 Nov 2012 15:29:07 +0000

Jon,

I broadly share your analysis of the Plaid’s problems. Leanne has the mandate and support to change and modernise the party, though. I think it remains to be seen if she’s up to the challenge. It would be wrong to write her off yet, but she will have to start gripping it within the next 12 months.

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